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S4-E13 Discussion: Simple Ways

Season 4 S4 Simple Ways Rarity FASHION

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#1 Fawkes

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 03:30 PM

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When Rarity develops a bit of a crush on a handsome colt writer named Trenderhoof, she quickly learns (once again) that love isn't quite as simple as fashion!

 

 

Episode 13 discussion is open, ponies! The episode premieres on The Hub at 10:30am EST, today, February 8th! Anypony who might not happen to have The Hub can still catch all the colorful, pony goodness by checkin' out one of the livestreams listed on Equestria Daily!

 

As always, spoilers are welcome and to be expected!





#2 Noedig

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 07:10 PM

No comment.



#3 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 03:43 AM

It was... interesting. Funny yes, amusing yes, but also different. The contrast of seeing Rarity looking and acting more like Applejack with that of Applejack looking and acting like Rarity to snap her out of it was interesting to say the least.

 

I enjoyed it and I feel many fans will have fun using the episode for art and even fanfiction.





#4 LostSanity

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 10:48 PM

I have no idea what I just watched...

But... it was ridiculously funny

 

8D





#5 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 12:34 AM

This episode is Frigid Brilliance (tv tropes). It was outrageous for Rarity to do what she did and for Applejack though she was proving such a point by making herself fancy.

Sure it was strange, sure it was unbelievable... but that is what made i so funny. You were having Rarity act like Applejack to impress someone and to snap her out of it Applejack acts like Rarity. ´╗┐That is wonderfully amusing.





#6 weesh

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:13 AM

This episode was too painful to watch.
I tried closing my eyes and saying "LALALALALLALALALLA!" to get through it, but in the end, I had to skip forward past about 4 minutes to finish it.

 

the best part of MLP is that it dives deep into friendships without mucking around much in the heavily trodden and awful romantic Hollywood scene.  

 

One of the worst parts of it is spikes crush on Rarity.  AND THEY TURNED IT INTO A LOVE QUADRILATERAL?! 

 

 

This episode is Frigid Brilliance (tv tropes). 

I couldn't find an article for that.  were you referring to "fridge brilliance"?  TV tropers are awfully fond of punning, so I don't want to take that for granted.  





#7 Noedig

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:27 PM

This episode was too painful to watch.
I tried closing my eyes and saying "LALALALALLALALALLA!" to get through it, but in the end, I had to skip forward past about 4 minutes to finish it.

 

the best part of MLP is that it dives deep into friendships without mucking around much in the heavily trodden and awful romantic Hollywood scene.  

 

One of the worst parts of it is spikes crush on Rarity.  AND THEY TURNED IT INTO A LOVE QUADRILATERAL?! 

 

 

I couldn't find an article for that.  were you referring to "fridge brilliance"?  TV tropers are awfully fond of punning, so I don't want to take that for granted.  

Okay, now I think I should comment.

 

This episode is one of the things I really hate watching...

Rarity acting extremely foolish in her behavior made me wanna skip a bunch of her country bumpkin accent.

As for Applejack...... she couldn't really sound very sophisticated, but hot-dang was she gorgeous!

But all in all, I disliked this episode the most.

Applejack only made things likeable in this episode for me, though.



#8 weesh

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:41 PM

Okay, now I think I should comment.

ah, so I correctly interpreted your "no comment" earlier.

I almost wrote the same thing.  

 

This could have been a good episode.  The prince blueblood episode already had a crush destroyed by him being a jerk.  having a crush dissolve on a nice guy just because they weren't as compatible as Rarity hoped would also have worked...and not caused me to contemplate stapling myself as a less painful alternative.  

 

But yeah, Applejack had a few good moments at the end.





#9 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:29 PM

So what are your complaints against the episode for all those that don't like it? Is it simply because of the romance? Tommy Oliver in his video explains in his video how it wasn't OOC for Rarity to have her crush, even though we had never seen the guy before.

 

Also they are adults, realistically some of them would get involved in a romance situation.





#10 weesh

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:05 PM

So what are your complaints against the episode for all those that don't like it? Is it simply because of the romance? Tommy Oliver in his video explains in his video how it wasn't OOC for Rarity to have her crush, even though we had never seen the guy before.

 

Also they are adults, realistically some of them would get involved in a romance situation.

Its not just because of the romance.  But MLP does platonic better than any other show I've been a fan of.  They should focus on their strengths, rather than delving into crappy romance stories.  

American media has a poor track record with making romantic relationship realistic, so MLP has always been a breath of fresh air.  

However, if MLP had had a realistic story, with a deep friendship blossoming slowly into a romance, and had avoided the painful tropes that every show and movie tends to consider normal, then I would have enjoyed it.  "Love at first sight" is bull and shallow.  The desire to shove a romance from start to finish in 22 minutes is misguided.  

 

Sure, it is within her character to crush.  But they turned that into a mess of a story with a second crush and increasingly infuriating decisions.  Perhaps they don't drive you to insanity like they do me?  Well that is because they aren't intrinsically awful on their own.  The problem is that the sum total of badly conceived relationships across all the media teaches people unrealistic ways to relate to people.  By modeling only unhealthy ways to approach romance, people grow up thinking it is normal.  Thus, each time I see another one, I cringe.  





#11 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:39 PM

Hmm, what I got from that is perhaps you have become cynical to romance, at least in Western Animation, and feel that it can't be done in a 22 minute episode?

It should be noted that nothing came from the love triangle and that this is the second time Rarity crushing on a stallion has not blossomed into romance. Which really proves a realistic point, that crushing/wanting a relationship with someone before even meeting them rarely works out. I would say, in the case of Rarity, romance has been handled well. Though at this point I feel she should be given a break. The mare wants romance and to find the stallion of her dreams, give her the chance of finding this without crushing thoses dreams.



#12 weesh

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:30 PM

Hmm, what I got from that is perhaps you have become cynical to romance, at least in Western Animation, and feel that it can't be done in a 22 minute episode?

Cynicism is believing that people are motivated first and foremost by their own self interest.  

I am tired of animation, live action, TV, movies, etc presenting an unrealistic view of romance with such regularity that people believe it.  A better word than "cynicism" is "indignation".  Romance CAN be done in a show that is only 22 minutes, but it is VERY hard.  Healthy romantic relationships don't develop that fast, so you have to come into an existing romance, like "canterlot wedding", or an existing strong friendship that is evolving, or you have to develop it over many episodes.  Shows and movies keep abridging the process to make it fit in their medium.  It is lazy and destructive.  And I am tired of seeing people act in real life the way they learn in these movies.  For most, the best they can hope for is an unsatisfying relationship, and at worst people get hurt by it.  There are tons of anecdotes about it working, but these are the exception, not the rule. 

 

 

It should be noted that nothing came from the love triangle and that this is the second time Rarity crushing on a stallion has not blossomed into romance. Which really proves a realistic point, that crushing/wanting a relationship with someone before even meeting them rarely works out.

 

Fair enough.  

 

 I would say, in the case of Rarity, romance has been handled well. Though at this point I feel she should be given a break. The mare wants romance and to find the stallion of her dreams, give her the chance of finding this without crushing thoses dreams.

 

I disagree that it was handled well.  
This is at least the second time that Rarity crushed for someone without learning the most important lesson of it.  This episode was NOT about crushing being unrealistic and silly.  It was about not changing who you are.  Basically saying "It's ok to crush, just be yourself while doing it".

This is cosmically missing the point.  If the whole episode was about being yourself, then they could have executed in a way that wasn't relationally distracting and harmful.  For instance, Rarity could have so wanted Trend to be a friend, that she could have changed the theme on his every half backed whim, crippling the project until she went back to her plan.  

If the show was supposed to be about crushing being silly, then they failed horribly by losing track of it in the final critical minutes.  
 

Rarity wants to be married...but why?   What is her motivation?  It doesn't seem that she wants a partner.  She seems to want someone to put on a pedestal.  She wants to live in a fairy tale.  Neither of these could be satisfying to her long term.  She needs to fix her self esteem, and then look for a partner.  Someone who will appreciate her work and be her equal. 

 

You are using the same vocabulary I'd expect Rarity to use: "stallion of her dreams".  

"Dreams".  

As long as it is fantasy, she has something to learn first.  I want her to one day figure it out and to get into a healthy marriage.  I do NOT want her to fall blindly into a doomed relationship, have a hasty wedding, and then struggle the way I see people.

A healthy relationship has a few more pieces:

1) uninformed optimism (you like them, but don't know them well enough to understand who they are)
2) informed pessimism (you know their crap)

3) crisis (you have to deal with their crap)
4) informed optimism (you know you like them, and why, in spite of their crap)

 

I don't want Rarity to get hurt unnecessarily, and I don't want her actions to cause real people to get hurt.





#13 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 10:55 PM

When it come to romance I do not believe the word 'pessimism' should be used, nor should one allow for negative thinking when it comes to relationships. I myself am an idealistic realist... but I feel pessimism can be just as unrealistic as optimism and can be more harmful as it means people will focus on what can go wrong and thus often justify not trying at all or handling things as if they will go bad.

 

There is a number of things I could say on the above but I feel it would take more time then I have available but I will try to summarize:

I feel it is unrealistic a mare a beautiful are Rarity has not been able to find a decent stallion that would reasonably line up with what Rarity is looking for. More she is not as stereotypically negative as many character would be following a similar design as her's. Honestly, though I may be bias as Rarity is my second favorite, I feel stallions should be lining up at the mare's door (yes I am exaggerating but I am doing so as to make a point) and believe that there must be a few stallions what would allow for a good relationship to develop.

 

I also believe you 'step by step' process is flawed as it assumes people are full of crap, more so as well that ponies are full of crap. One may be flawed, one may have quirks, and a couple will not always agree but I feel saying 'you know their crap', 'you deal with their crap', and 'you know you like them, and why, in spite of their crap' is needless cynical/negative... especially for a place like Equestria. Also I argue while going over every detail of a relationship, specially the bad, might be more realistic it is not always important and can be tedious/boring in a show that often requires for more condensed plot.

 

This is a show children need to be able to enjoy, especially since it is supposed to sell toys, and if romance is brought up going over everything bad that can and even likely will go wrong distracts from the overall story. Everyone learns as they grow up that life isn't sunshine and roses, but instead of putting so much time in bring attention to the negative perhaps we can focus on the positive and working to make such the norm.





#14 Noedig

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 11:22 PM

So what are your complaints against the episode for all those that don't like it? Is it simply because of the romance?

No, it's the way Rarity chose how to react to the romance, huh-doy! :P



#15 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:01 AM

No, it's the way Rarity chose how to react to the romance, huh-doy! :P

Yet since it lined up with her past behavior when it comes to those that could be considered elite and famous, in style and popular... it didn't bother me personally.

 

All one needs to do is consider her interactions with Prince Blueblood, Sapphire Shores, Hoity Toity, Photo Finish, and Fancy Pants to know that her behavior really wasn't unreasonable for her character. Heck being in the mere presence of Fancy Pants got Rarity to lie just to impress him... when really she had more then enough honest* things to say that would do as well if not better in impressing an idol.
 

*Saving Equestria more then once, having a friend that can pull of a sonic rainboom, a friend that is the personal student of Celestia, having a celebrity shop at her store, exc.





#16 weesh

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:02 AM

I'm not saying that we should try to be pessimistic, or that we should look for the bad in other people.
But when people go into a relationship starry-eyed, they are asking for hurt and disappointment.  If you have unrealistic fairytale expectations of someone the moment you meet them, then you WILL get to a point where they disappoint you.  That's normal!  because no one is perfect, so holding them to that standard isn't fair to them or you.  

 

The better you get to know someone, the more likely you are to find out about their particular imperfections.  If you approach these people as friends, this will be less shocking and disappointing.  

 

But since tons of people are going to be starry-eyed, they are also going to become disappointed.  The next step from this is often pessimism, and the relationship will break if you don't work through it.  This is REAL.  It shows a hasty entry, but doesn't mean its a lost cause.  To deny pessimism, as it seems you and most of our stories do, is to give the impression that people are doing something wrong when it happens.  In fact, becoming pessimistic can be a flag to help us realize that we were being unrealistic, and to get the relationship back on track.  By showing only the uninformed optimism, and then skipping directly to a non-relationship, they are modeling poor handling of a relationship.  

 

This is a show children need to be able to enjoy, especially since it is supposed to sell toys, and if romance is brought up going over everything bad that can and even likely will go wrong distracts from the overall story. 

 

We are fans of a show that has taken it's social responsibility seriously, and they have been rewarded with a devout fan-base that snaps up everything they can put on the shelves.  Selling dreck is NOT helpful to their bottom line.  

 

I want them to avoid storylines if they aren't willing to take the social effects of them seriously.  They do so much good, and there aren't surely more stories floating around the heads of the writers than can ever be made into a show.  They could have written a simple storyline that treats Rarity's nature to crush seriously and responsibly, but they didn't.  I'm not going to let it slide just because "it's a show for kids".  The target audience is supremely impressionable, and this harms them more than you or I.  

 

I feel it is unrealistic a mare a beautiful are Rarity has not been able to find a decent stallion that would reasonably line up with what Rarity is looking for. More she is not as stereotypically negative as many character would be following a similar design as her's. Honestly, though I may be bias as Rarity is my second favorite, I feel stallions should be lining up at the mare's door (yes I am exaggerating but I am doing so as to make a point) and believe that there must be a few stallions what would allow for a good relationship to develop.

This sounds like you think Rarity is entitled to an awesome boyfriend/husband because she is beautiful, and because she isn't negative. That seems pretty shallow.
I disagree, and wouldn't even say her generosity and creativity entitle her to that.  That implies that a man is a prize to be earned with personality, instead of a partner to share life with.  
Rarity is pretty immature.  There is more to having healthy relationships than good looks and a positive outlook on life.  I don't want Rarity to fall for someone who only likes her because she looks great.  That would be horrifying.  Rarity needs to get herself straight first, and THEN she would be in a good place to develop friendships into romances.  

From your perspective, why does Rarity want to be married?  





#17 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:12 AM

From your perspective, why does Rarity want to be married?  

I'm not saying Rarity does, or more should, want to be married... at least not right away. If the writers were to actually delve into romance truly I would want it to take place over more then one episode, yet also not be the focus. One thing I would like to see is a character dating but it just being a mention and not the focus. Like in Rarity's case something like, "Not tonight dear, I have plans with a stallion that had asked me to dinner".

I feel giving one of the Mane Six a special somepony doesn't have to distract from the over all focus of friendship and perhaps can even enforce it, as many people in real life date yet keep up with the rest of the demands of their life.





#18 weesh

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:27 AM

I'm not saying Rarity does, or more should, want to be married... at least not right away. 

I didn't mean to imply that that was your opinion.  But it seems clear that she wants to be married.  But i can't think of anything she does that shows a good reason to pursue it, so I was wondering if you had thought of something.  That would have us looking at the same thing from different angles.  





#19 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:31 AM

I didn't mean to imply that that was your opinion.  But it seems clear that she wants to be married.  But i can't think of anything she does that shows a good reason to pursue it, so I was wondering if you had thought of something.  That would have us looking at the same thing from different angles.  

While I see no reason while ponies can't start a relationship quickly, I will agree something like marriage should be taken slowly. Perhaps for example in Rarity's case she is so eager to get married I feel having somepony that gets involved with her to have Rarity consider things more slowly would be a start.





#20 Noedig

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:39 AM

Scholar, as I said before...

What I hate most about in any TV or movies or even a book is acting extremely foolish e.g. Will Ferrel in Elf... hated that movie because of how ridiculously naive an adult can act(seriously, just acting no big deal) like.

Anyways, it's my opinion.







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