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Pink Alicorns Anonymous

Cadence Crystal Empire Politcal and Magic Ethics

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#1 CobsRa

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 09:57 PM

[Subject matter might seem a little dark, though not explicit. You've been warned!]

 

People, I come to you all with a plead for advice for a problem.

 

You see, I've been delving into gathering a few facts or making suggestions for the lore section, and I intend to add to as many of the empty ones as I can during my free time. But I'll eventually get around to the Crystal Empire, and, well...

I think Cadence is secretly evil! D

Here is my reasoning for this:

The Crystal Empire, what I'm assuming is a separate nation from Equestria, appears again in the north after a thousand years of being gone. The crystal ponies can hardly remember anything about themselves and seem stuck with a depressive state of mind. At this time, Cadence seems in control of the country.

How did this happen? Since she was around since Twilight was little, isn't she then an Equestrian, not a crystal pony? Was leadership just assumed by a foreign power, or was there a vote posed on a confused and indefinitely unhappy population?

The solution to the crystal ponies' unhappiness is apparently the crystal heart, and is eventually recovered and activated making them all happy again. After that, I don't think I've ever seen many... well... not happy. I realize I'm stepping into some dark territory here, but shouldn't research to find a more direct cure to the depression-laden condition which all crystal ponies seem to have had before the Crystal Heart be carried out? A single stone affecting the moods of an entire populace (species?) is just a tad unnerving, not to mention unstable. If the Crystal Heart even breaks, what happens?

I do digress somewhat though, in that ponies in general seem to be overly social, typically content creatures. And that life in Equestria is backwards from real life, in a lot of ways... :P

But lastly, Cadence also has the capability to make ponies fall in love. How does she know which ponies are couples? And even if she knew who is in a relationship and if that relationship is having problems, is it morally right for her to alter their emotions like that?

I know she isn't the only one in FiM to have used magic to alter one's mood (or even direct mind control in some other ponies' cases), but what seems to be the misuse of magic as well as an unexplained rise to power are just a little unsettling.

I'd like to write as positive of a response to the Crystal Empire's lore as possible when I get around to it, and honestly like her character in every other way. I'd prefer not keep this sneaking suspicion she became an empress over the small country through subterfuge and other unethical means.

Can you guys help me see her from a more positive point of view? :(





#2 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:25 AM

It is established in the book Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell the origins of Princess Cadance, that she had been a orphan pegasus raised by earth ponies and gained her alicornhood by saving her town from a witch with a powerful amulet. I believe it also goes into more detail involving Cadance's powers and that of the Crystal Heart as well.

 

 

The Crystal Heart is a symbol, much like the American Flag or other national symbol, as such it plays a part in a crystal pony's happiness as it is a literal artifact that helps keep the Crystal Empire safe and ponies happy. If you lived in a place protected from harm by a heart shaped crystal that amplified the emotions of those that lived in the Empire and it spreads this to all of Equestria... well that would be a thing of pride and consideration knowing that your happiness brings joy and hope into the hearts of others. This playing off so that everypony helps add to the whole thus together making each other happy.

 

King Sombra took this away, took away the Crystal Empire's symbol of hope and love, bringing fear and hopelessness. This allowing him control over the hearts of crystal ponies, enslaving them and becoming their royal. Locking it away somewhere where they could never find it. Of note is that crystal ponies do not have wings or horns, thus getting to the Crystal Heart would be impossible for any without the abilities of a unicorn... more the ability to use dark magic. Thus he had perfect control until the Royal Sisters come along to stop him, even then though he managed to show his power over the Crystal Empire before being locked away and going out with a "if I can't have it you wont either."

----------------------------

 

My verdict is that no, Cadance is not evil and that the Crystal Heart is actually a good in and of itself... at least canonically and here we consider things as they are canon. It is likely another staff can add to this, perhaps even give their own thoughts.





#3 CobsRa

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:22 PM

And therein lies one of my problems. I've only ever seen the animation series, but have not delved into any of the literature. :(

 

As for the Crystal Heart, I hadn't thought about it that way. The symbolism behind it, as well as the indirect effect it might help to have on others had escaped me. I never quite thought about the Crystal Heart itself to be a negative thing, per-say, more of an inefficient solution. More like a widespread treatment, rather than a full-on cure for a condition. Though I suppose at least that may be unfair thinking? I was concerned that it was so much of a linear way to solve a problem, but in hindsight the crystal ponies may not have had a very wide time-frame to change that, even if they had wanted to. With Sombra gone, they probably wouldn't see much of a use in searching for something else, either.

 

Sombra I never denied was in the wrong to say the least here. However, I also hadn't considered the history between him and the alicorn sisters either. By that view, Equestria would have helped them (or at least tried to) out of a hopeless situation twice, wouldn't they? I'm still curious of how Cadance (Cadence? It's spelled differently some places) became their leader, but she at least has more supporting points now.

 

Well... if nothing else, you've given me a number of counter-points to think about. I'll be sure to look up said book on Cadance's history as well, if it could help explain her abilities, which are probably the only thing I don't yet have much explanation for. Apart from it being a cultural thing, perhaps. Ponies are ponies, not humans, after all. I have to keep reminding myself this.

 

Some of my concerns may have been a little premature, then. I appreciate the history lessons and opinions though, much obliged. :)





#4 SonicRainboomGirl

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:47 PM

 

0:00-20:00





#5 CobsRa

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:10 PM

 

0:00-20:00

 

Aw, shoot. Someone already made a song about it. And here I thought mine was gonna be a first... :(

 

While we're on the subject, I do like apples and all, but is it evil to hate apple pie? Remember I'm American here.





#6 SonicRainboomGirl

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:19 AM

Oh, it's from a popular Brony show called Friendship is Witchcraft. It's just for laughs, that's all  ^3^





#7 CobsRa

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:31 AM

I figured as much. :)

 

I'm a terrible singer anyway. The apple pie comment was serious, though. :mad:

 

I wonder if Cadance likes apple pie? I may have to go see if her thread on the ask forums is still active...





#8 knight

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:10 PM

Just throwing out my two bits, I do agree with EquestrianScholar on everything but the whole 'no crystal pegasi/unicorns.'....Pegasi, at least, have been confirmed:

Cadance_walking_out_of_the_train_S4E11.p

Oh, and so has Flash Sentry.





#9 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 04:44 PM

Just throwing out my two bits, I do agree with EquestrianScholar on everything but the whole 'no crystal pegasi/unicorns.'....Pegasi, at least, have been confirmed:


Hmm, how did I forget that. Though in my defense Three is a Crowd is one of my least favorite episodes.

So yes, as seems to be the tradition, the guard in the Crystal Empire are pegasus. So we have a population for the most part seems to be mostly crystal ponies without horns and wings but there is one confirmed case of a pegasus crystal pony.

To double check I will also watch the episodes involving the Crystal Empire.

Edit:
Okay I have rewatched/skimmed The Crystal Empire Parts 1 and 2, Games Ponies Play and I got to say I feel the pegasus guard might have been an oversight.

The whole of the population of the Crystal Empire have consistently been what can perhaps be called a subspecies of Earth Pony, as up to the point of Three is a Crowd every single one of the many Crystal Ponies shown have been without horn or wings. Unless I missed a couple of other examples and they can be pointed out.


Rewatching Crystal Empire now, after finishing Games Ponies Play



#10 knight

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 06:57 PM

Hmm, how did I forget that. Though in my defense Three is a Crowd is one of my least favorite episodes.

So yes, as seems to be the tradition, the guard in the Crystal Empire are pegasus. So we have a population for the most part seems to be mostly crystal ponies without horns and wings but there is one confirmed case of a pegasus crystal pony.

To double check I will also watch the episodes involving the Crystal Empire.

Edit:
Okay I have rewatched/skimmed The Crystal Empire Parts 1 and 2, Games Ponies Play and I got to say I feel the pegasus guard might have been an oversight.

The whole of the population of the Crystal Empire have consistently been what can perhaps be called a subspecies of Earth Pony, as up to the point of Three is a Crowd every single one of the many Crystal Ponies shown have been without horn or wings. Unless I missed a couple of other examples and they can be pointed out.


Rewatching Crystal Empire now, after finishing Games Ponies Play

 

He and Flash were both purposely put in the episode for fans, actually. :P Why is it so hard for Crystal ponies to just be like other ponies? (pegasi/uni/earth) The only real difference is that they sparkle. :squee:





#11 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 07:07 PM

He and Flash were both purposely put in the episode for fans, actually. :P Why is it so hard for Crystal ponies to just be like other ponies? (pegasi/uni/earth) The only real difference is that they sparkle. :squee:

Well I personally kind of liked the idea of them being another, separate but related, race to that of the main three. Where we have the more common earth ponies, pegasus, and unicorns... then we have the crystal ponies as a branch off.

 

The fact does remain that apart from that one guard all other crystal ponies have been shown without wings or horn, consistently so even as that guard seems to be the only exception as a pegasus variant.





#12 CobsRa

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 07:21 PM

You know, this'll be great for writing for the lore section later. You guys are really giving me the two-birds-one-stone deal with this thread! :P

 

Actually, until it was mentioned I wasn't aware the Crystal Empire had anything other than the crystal version of earth ponies. I'm inclined to believe that even if there are unicorns along with the pegasi as seen, earth pony variants would still be the majority, given how often we see them.

 

Unless the native ponies of the Crystal Empire are actually all a subspecies of earth pony and the crystal guards are actually Equestrians who took the job. The Mane Six did get 'crystalized' briefly at one point or another, right? Maybe it's just an effect of the Heart.

 

I feel like making a crack about the guard on the left being named Crystal Mac, for some reason... Either way, glad to see such an in-depth conversation sparking now. ^3^





#13 knight

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 08:42 PM

On that note, why isn't Flash Sentry a Crystal Pegasi? 

 

Or, here's a thought, maybe the Crystal ponies are an original species, but they are able to breed with Equestrian-type ponies, but the offspring is sparkly? 

 

Maybe back before the crystal empire got frozen, Equestria and the Crystal Empire were close enough that ponies intermingled and bred, and thus the crystal pegasi was born, grew, and was frozen with the rest of the ponies. That's how he's an adult now. With those type of origins, then I suppose unis and pegis would be possible for Crystal ponies, no? 

 

Or, for all we know, maybe the Crystal Heart causes ponies to turn cyrsaline after extended years of living there, and maybe...maybe Flash just hasn't lived there long enough.





#14 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 08:57 PM

Or, here's a thought, maybe the Crystal ponies are an original species, but they are able to breed with Equestrian-type ponies, but the offspring is sparkly? 

That wouldn't exactly work because, at least among the three main races, a pony is a single race. You can have a mother that is a pegasus and a father that is unicorn the child will be either a pegasus, a unicorn, or an earth pony... not some mix of the parents. Sure some fans try have a mix, such as lets say a unicorn with a unicorn parent and either earth pony or pegasus parent... and have it so that they weaker magic. Or a pegasus with an earth pony and pegasus parent being bulkier, stronger/tougher, and less ability as a flier.

 

Yet this distinctions not really seen in the show, at least not for certain, and I would say that if a crystal pony and non-crystal pony got together... the child would most likely be either a crystal pony or the race of the other parent not a mix of the two.

 

Though perhaps I am wrong, we can only discuss and consider because something tells me the writers are unlikely to go into pony genetics.





#15 knight

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:26 PM

That wouldn't exactly work because, at least among the three main races, a pony is a single race. You can have a mother that is a pegasus and a father that is unicorn the child will be either a pegasus, a unicorn, or an earth pony... not some mix of the parents. Sure some fans try have a mix, such as lets say a unicorn with a unicorn parent and either earth pony or pegasus parent... and have it so that they weaker magic. Or a pegasus with an earth pony and pegasus parent being bulkier, stronger/tougher, and less ability as a flier.

 

Yet this distinctions not really seen in the show, at least not for certain, and I would say that if a crystal pony and non-crystal pony got together... the child would most likely be either a crystal pony or the race of the other parent not a mix of the two.

 

Though perhaps I am wrong, we can only discuss and consider because something tells me the writers are unlikely to go into pony genetics.

 

But it's been eligible for zebrasus and zebracorns to be possible, no? Would this not be a trait of both parents? One is a simple pelt alteration (stripes = sparkles), while the other is a species trademark from the other creature (horn/wings.) It's not so implausible, actually, if you look at them as two different species. 

Same thing with ponies/griffon breeding. The result is half horse half eagle...a mix of the two parents, again. It's safe to say that when two alternate species breed, a crossbreed is born.





#16 EquestrianScholar

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:07 PM

But it's been eligible for zebrasus and zebracorns to be possible, no? Would this not be a trait of both parents? One is a simple pelt alteration (stripes = sparkles), while the other is a species trademark from the other creature (horn/wings.) It's not so implausible, actually, if you look at them as two different species. 

Same thing with ponies/griffon breeding. The result is half horse half eagle...a mix of the two parents, again. It's safe to say that when two alternate species breed, a crossbreed is born.

Well yes but zebras are not a pony race, they are a cousin to ponies I would say so that could be said to work out a bit better. I feel for sake of simplicity and because of what has been shown a pony is always only physically one race, even if mixed blood.

 

Zebras, griffins, deer, and dragons create a sort of hybrid race while ponies still only come out as one of the three races. Even if the parents are a unicorn and a pegasus, the foal would be either a unicorn or pegasus (or an earth pony) not a mix of the two.

 

Otherwise we would need a long and complicated discussion on pony genetics and what advantages/disadvantages each mix provides. I at least don't have time to be involved in such a long discussion that could actually distract from roleplaying and character creation.

 

But perhaps we can do a site vote/lore discussion on Mixed Bloodlines and Genetics going over such details as well as how different groups and races would consider offspring of such couplings.









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