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S4-E04 Discussion: Daring Don't

Season 4 S4 Daring Dont Rainbow Dash Daring Do

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#1 Fawkes

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:12 PM

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When the newest Daring Do book is delayed, Rainbow Dash calls upon her Ponyville friends to help the author of the series, A.K. Yearling, get the book onto shelves! Though it isn't long before the group learns an unexpected secret from the popular author, and are given a startling mission, the failure of which could mean the end of the Daring Do series!

 

Episode 4 discussion is open, ponies! The episode premieres on The Hub at 10:30am EST, today, December 7th! Anypony who might not happen to /have/ The Hub can still catch all the colorful, pony goodness by checkin' out one of the livestreams listed on Equestria Daily!

 

As always, spoilers are welcome and to be expected!





#2 Flagwaver

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 05:03 PM

After watching the episode, I thought only one thing...

 

Why didn't the Mane 6 help Daring Do rather than just stare at her getting hear tail kicked by the stallions.  And, even after having lost the ring, they did nothing to stop the Stallions...



#3 Eclipse

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:32 PM

The writers seem to be pretty adamant on adding things to the world and fattening up the worlds lore.





#4 Davroth

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:12 PM

The writers seem to be pretty adamant on adding things to the world and fattening up the worlds lore.


Oh my glob, right? How can Daring Do be real and no one knows about it? What? XD





#5 LostSanity

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:12 PM

Wow.

That was an unexpected surprise. That's not what I expected from the synopsis I read.

It was a pleasant surprise.

In other words... another AWESOME episode!!

 

:D





#6 weesh

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 03:03 PM

Interesting that this conflicts with the implications of the comics, which suggested that Twilight's mom was the writer.  

Loved the Indiana Jones red-line map.  

Disliked just about everything else.





#7 ZephyrBurst

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:33 PM

Those comics don't have anything to do with the show.





#8 Davroth

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:38 PM

True, but I sometimes wish they did.



#9 weesh

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:51 PM

Those comics don't have anything to do with the show.

This is the clearest example I can think of for an outright contradiction.

Maybe it was only illusion, but I had no trouble maintaining it until this.  

 

 

I thought I wanted more daring doo...turns out I wanted GOOD and artificial daring doo or none at all.  





#10 Rainbow_Dash

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:03 PM

Caught up with the latest episode. Just gotta start off with the single worst thing... the cheese-factor of this one made me stop several times and groan out-loud...
 
Other than that, awesome episode, and quite a shocking plot-twist that the books were apparently real as well as DD being real! (though this does place my RPs of Dash cosplaying as DD while reading books to the foals in the hospital in a peculiar place now since DD is no longer a ficticious character AND Dash has met her... *sigh*) I was expecting at any moment for there to be a reveal that this was an imagination-spot/dream/etc from Dash panicing and hitting her head, and the ending just be after the "fake" adventure, she reads the book and it's eeriely similar.
 
I loved how the villian was unscrupulous enough that all he cared about was money. This is really the first time we've seen the truely seedy side of equestria, also, while minor, we finally have a few canon recurring villians, though they probably will have to be tied to DD/AKY since they dont really seem to have any desire to invade ponyville or topple celestia/luna, etc
 
Admitantly the plot for this episode was, bizarre though... and at times felt like it was a bad fanfic (of course I think at least some of that was intentional), and I liked how it started out as a "slice of life" and then changed into an adventure story!
 
Also, couple random things:
-Indyana Jones music playing during the map scene!
-DD _does_ have a whip! She just doesnt use it as much as Indy does...
-So much violence! And the scene where Awezolo (sp?) is actually throwing all manner of weaponry at DD! (admittantly an imagination spot, but still) They seem to be pushing the envalope with this episode...
-More shots of the interior of Dash's mansion! 
-Awesome LOTR reference with the ring in the fire!
 
Also, I should have put this up above, but didnt think to mention it before now...
The synopsis I had was from the unoficial-official MLP wiki, saying soemthing like "The mane-6 help the author of daring do out so she can get the book done quicker" between that and the title "Daring Dont" I thought it was going to be them showing up at the house of the author (who I expected to look suspiciously like the Fausticorn) and find out she had writers block, so the M6 all make suggestions on how to continue the story, which ranges from semi-reasonable (Twilight) to crazy but plausable (Dash) to really really really bizare (Pinkie), to downright silly (Rarity/Flutters) and in the end the author throws all their idea in the trash except maybe a hint of each and goes about the story herself. with a moral of something like "everyone has their own tallent and sometimes they dont see eye to eye but they can all help" or such...
 
In responce to what was said above:
@ flag: They stared because they were in shock and suffered Bystander Syndrome (it's real, click the link)
@ elicpse: I dissagree, I think this was meant (by the writers) to be less about lore and more about a "it's REAL!?" gag. I'm almost shocked that awezolo didnt attack ponyville for some reason, just to drive it home....
@ Davroth: Nopony knows the M6 are heros who defeated NMM, Discord, Sombra, etc, do they? This hardly seems more far-fetched
@ weesh: note your own wording "Implication" that means the comics could have just handed out a red herring. Personally, I think your right that the two are not connected, in part possibly to keep the audeinces seperate (though with the last 4 episodes, I'm feeling a must stronger 'adventure' sence than 'slice of life' which seems to be aimed more at the 'boys' and bronies than at little girls...
@ weesh x2: I kinda agree on the DD part, I wanted to see more snipits of the books (kinda wondering if they're actually planning to release them as tie-in merchandise...) and was excited for this episode because of this... and, well, like I said, very cheesy and fanfic-y... I liked it, yes, but really wish they'd taken it a different direction because I dont really like the way it played out... like dave said above, it's like there's a hidden world within this world, kinda mind-blowing in one way, arse-pull in another... much more arse-pull imo...




#11 weesh

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:04 PM

@ weesh: note your own wording "Implication" that means the comics could have just handed out a red herring. Personally, I think your right that the two are not connected, in part possibly to keep the audeinces seperate (though with the last 4 episodes, I'm feeling a must stronger 'adventure' sence than 'slice of life' which seems to be aimed more at the 'boys' and bronies than at little girls...

@ weesh x2: I kinda agree on the DD part, I wanted to see more snipits of the books (kinda wondering if they're actually planning to release them as tie-in merchandise...) and was excited for this episode because of this... and, well, like I said, very cheesy and fanfic-y... I liked it, yes, but really wish they'd taken it a different direction because I dont really like the way it played out... like dave said above, it's like there's a hidden world within this world, kinda mind-blowing in one way, arse-pull in another... much more arse-pull imo...

 

It was a pretty strong implication!  It shows an award for daring do, a picture of twi's mom wearing said award, all over a writing desk. Its all but stating it!

 

Cheesy and fanfic-y was great in "read it and weep", because it wasn't real.  They were not showing what we wanted, they were showing what Rainbow wanted.  

But this was just painful.  It makes no sense, and I empathized with Daring Do to the point of it actually being too painful to watch.





#12 Rainbow_Dash

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:15 PM

It was a pretty strong implication!  It shows an award for daring do, a picture of twi's mom wearing said award, all over a writing desk. Its all but stating it!

 

Cheesy and fanfic-y was great in "read it and weep", because it wasn't real.  They were not showing what we wanted, they were showing what Rainbow wanted.  

But this was just painful.  It makes no sense, and I empathized with Daring Do to the point of it actually being too painful to watch.

 

Not familiar with the comics, so pardon me if I seem to be being a butt, I dont know the circumstances, but perhaps the comics implication was an imagination spot? (again, sorry, not read them) If it was obvious that it was real, then I agree, this is proof that the comics are NOT canon, sadly...

 

I agree with the comment on RiaW, the way it was done there was awesome and fanciful, to the point of making DD use the exact same model as Dash (though it amuses me that the different voice we heard in RiaW was used again for the "real" DD) but when it all became real... yeah... kinda jarred me a bit and as I said I had to stop it was so cheesy at points (mostly during the 'fangasm' moments) I get the reference - A. K. Yearling/J K Rowling (who's stories were about an "imaginary" world being real) but I think it was a stretch...





#13 Davroth

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:18 PM

@ Davroth: Nopony knows the M6 are heros who defeated NMM, Discord, Sombra, etc, do they? This hardly seems more far-fetched

 

Where's your proof for that? Also, it's more far fetched because we haven't seen anyone writing the adventures of the mane 6 in book form.





#14 Rainbow_Dash

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:23 PM

Where's your proof for that? Also, it's more far fetched because we haven't seen anyone writing the adventures of the mane 6 in book form.

 

All the times the M6 have met ponies who have NO CLUE who they are, even after introductions... Fancy Pants, Hoity Toity, Spitfire/Soarin, etc etc etc...





#15 weesh

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:46 PM

Not familiar with the comics, so pardon me if I seem to be being a butt, I dont know the circumstances, but perhaps the comics implication was an imagination spot? (again, sorry, not read them) If it was obvious that it was real, then I agree, this is proof that the comics are NOT canon, sadly...

Hence my disappointment....

But now that you mention it, it was a flashback.  And Shinning Armor was a narrator so unreliable that Cadence and Twilight teased him about it.  But all the Daring Do clues were in the background.  





#16 Davroth

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 11:01 PM

All the times the M6 have met ponies who have NO CLUE who they are, even after introductions... Fancy Pants, Hoity Toity, Spitfire/Soarin, etc etc etc...


My point stands, though. No one tries to pass the adventures of the mane 6 as fiction in universe. Add to that that the mane 6 have been immortalized as the savior a of Equestria in form if stain glass windows.



#17 Rainbow_Dash

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 11:13 PM

My point stands, though. No one tries to pass the adventures of the mane 6 as fiction in universe. Add to that that the mane 6 have been immortalized as the savior a of Equestria in form if stain glass windows.

 

Likewise I made my point that nopony knows they even exist, much less that they're heros many times over. Likewise if DD and Monkey-boy never left the remote corner of equestria, they likely would never have been seen either. The M6 just didnt have the fiscal sense to write books and publish them in distant lands! lol





#18 Davroth

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:05 AM

Remote corner? You mean that place that is in walking distance of Ponyville?

Also, I'd make the argument that ponies might know of the exploits of the mane 6, but still not treat them as celebrities.



#19 weesh

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:17 AM

The thing that bugged me most about "Sweet and Elite" was that Rarity felt compelled to lie when asked who Rainbow was.  She is way more impressive than the lie Rarity told.  

 

Could it be that Equestrians, in general, have a more grounded view of celebrities?
Nowadays, people flock to national icons because being a fan of a celebrity is a way to bridge the gaps between us in a country with 300 million people.  You don't NEED a hero to be an icon to feel connected when you live in a series of small Utopian towns and cities.  

When Captain Sully saves the day, we all hear about it and remember because we live in a world where we have disasters like plane crashes and terrorist attacks.

But things seldom go wrong in Equestria, and when they do, they are wrapped up within days and life goes back to normal.  

 

Ah, that explanation is WEAK.  It falls apart when you consider the fan behaivor we have already seen from snips and snails and scootaloo and over Fluttershy in the Photo Finish episode.  

 

 

Also, I'd make the argument that ponies might know of the exploits of the mane 6, but still not treat them as celebrities.

There probably isn't a great explanation for why this is so, but it MUST be the case for the health of the show.

They are working hard to maintain the relatability of the characters, and that can't be the case if they are all celebrities.  They have given us only hints of what Twilight would actually be going through.  





#20 Rainbow_Dash

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:30 AM

Remote corner? You mean that place that is in walking distance of Ponyville?

Also, I'd make the argument that ponies might know of the exploits of the mane 6, but still not treat them as celebrities.

 

Considering the map montage I kidna doubt it's really that close, also Twilight comments that the author lives in a "remote area"

 

You mean like how Dash kept such a level head when meeting Yearing and then Daring Do in the fur? 

 

While I agree my personal theory is a bit dark and cruel (Celestia keeping the M6's exploits a secret, and the official view is that She and/or Luna saved the day in those ocasions we've seen, either to maintain the view that She and Luna are the most powerful ponies in equestria or to specifically keep the M6 from getting big heads --- which for at least one of them would be quite easy...) There's just too much contradiction to say 99% of equestria regards celebreties as everyday ponies.

 

 

The thing that bugged me most about "Sweet and Elite" was that Rarity felt compelled to lie when asked who Rainbow was.  She is way more impressive than the lie Rarity told.  

 

Could it be that Equestrians, in general, have a more grounded view of celebrities?
Nowadays, people flock to national icons because being a fan of a celebrity is a way to bridge the gaps between us in a country with 300 million people.  You don't NEED a hero to be an icon to feel connected when you live in a series of small Utopian towns and cities.  

When Captain Sully saves the day, we all hear about it and remember because we live in a world where we have disasters like plane crashes and terrorist attacks.

But things seldom go wrong in Equestria, and when they do, they are wrapped up within days and life goes back to normal.  

 

Ah, that explanation is WEAK.  It falls apart when you consider the fan behaivor we have already seen from snips and snails and scootaloo and over Fluttershy in the Photo Finish episode.  

 

 

There probably isn't a great explanation for why this is so, but it MUST be the case for the health of the show.

They are working hard to maintain the relatability of the characters, and that can't be the case if they are all celebrities.  They have given us only hints of what Twilight would actually be going through.  

 

Not to mention, as I pointed out, Dash (and to a much lesser extent Twilight) reacting to meeting Yearling and then Daring Do.

 

Every "Hero" instance *can* be explained away, usually with Easy Amnesia being a side effect of the EoH, but like you said, with instances like Fluttershy's Modeling Career, however short lived, there would be ponies who knew about it. Llikewise going back to S&E, Rarity could have said dash was the BYF winner who saved a fellow contestant and three of the wonderbolts (since it obviously wasn't covered up as Spitfire recognized her at the Gala --- but oddly seems to have no real recollection of Dash by the events of WBA...)

 

I think your right that it's simply a major plot-hole that cant be logically explained away just for the sake of keeping the characters relatable... which imo is one of the few major shortcommings of the show...









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